Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility

There has been three issues that have arose recently and discussed in the liberal blogosphere: the Clinton campaign's "planting" questions at their events in Iowa; whether HRC's campaign tipped the wait staff at an Iowa restaurant; and Clinton's support for the Peru trade deal. In this post, I do not want to get into the (lack of) merits of any of these incidences. Instead, I want to review the statements made by Senator Clinton and her campaign staff and what they demonstrate about their credibility.

THE PLANTED QUESTION INCIDENT: Taking each incident in turn, first the issue of planting questions at campaign events. This story was first broke by Patrick Caldwell in The Scarlett and Black, the student newspaper of Grinnell College. It's summary of its reporting can be found here. Let's look at what happened in some rational sequence.

As reported by Caldwell, the Clinton campaign, at an event at a biodiesal plant held as part of a week long series of events to introduce HRC's new energy plan, approached a college student and at some point asked such individual to question Senator Clinton about global warming. The student noted that there were several questions in a notebook binder being carried by the Clinton staffer and that the writing on the pad indicated that this question was to be asked by a "college student."

Taking events chronologically, the first sign of deception is apparent in the question planted and the answer given by Senator Clinton. As instructed, the student asked what Clinton would do to stop the effects of global warming. As reported: "Clinton began her response by noting that young people often pose this question to her before delving into the benefits of her plan."

Now, the artifice in this response boggles the imagination. If, as Senator Clinton stated, young people often ask this question, why did her campaign have the question planted? Moreover, the fact that the Clinton staffer was assigned to get a college student to ask this question, and Clinton's reference to young people in her response, gives the appearance of coordination between the speaker and the staffer. Moreover, since global warming is an important issue and Clinton was speaking at a facility that creates alternative energy sources, why didn't HRC talk about global warming in her prepared remarks? The most logical answer is that Senator Clinton knew that someone in the audience would raise this topic. Finally, it was noted that a staffer pointed HRC to the student with the planted question. What ratioal does Clinton suppose her staff has for pointing out specific people in the audience for her to call on if not because the staffer wants a specific question to be asked.

Senator Clinton, and her campaign spokespeople deny that the candidate knew that the question was planted and I admit the evidence that she knew set forth above is circumstantial. However, there can be no doubt that the campaign itself has lied about this practice. When first asked about the Caldwell article, the Clinton campaign denied that it planted questions. As reported by the Scarlett and Black: "'It's not a practice of our campaign to ask people to ask specific questions,' said Mark Daley, Clinton's Iowa Communications Director. Daley said that when an event is focusing on a specific topic, such as health care or Iraq, 'people are encouraged to ask questions in these regards,' but denied that they are given specific questions. But when directly asked if his statements meant that planting does not occur in the Hillary campaign, Daley could only say, 'to the best of my knowledge.' '[Planting] is not something that is encouraged in our campaign,' he said." However, to use the terminology of the Watergate era, that denial is no longer operative as the Clinton campaign later acknowledged that it did plant the question on global warming.

Nor is that the end of the Clinton campaign's deception on that issue. Reporters found another individual, Geoff Mitchell, who was asked by Clinton's Iowa political director, Chris Haylor, to raise a specific inquiry with Senator Clinton. When later asked about this, the campaign at first tried to characterize the discussions between Mitchell and Haylor as just a meeting between friends, not an effort to have a question planted. However, Mitchell denied that he even met Haylor before. Apparently, the Clinton campaign has since acknowledged that this second incident also constituted a "plant." The fact that Haylor holds a senior position in Clinton's Iowa campaign heightens the deliberateness of the original denial by Clinton's Iowa spokesperson.

So, to summarize, most likely HRC is lying when she denied knowledge about the plant and her campaign certainly lied about two separate incidences regarding its practice of planting questions.

THE WAITRESS TIPPING INCIDENT. The second issue that made the rounds last week involved whether the HRC campaign tipped the wait staff who served them in a restaurant in Iowa. This incident came to light as a small part of an NPR story on the effect the campaigns were having on the lives of various individuals. After the Obama campaign made this incident the subject of an email blast, the The Clinton campaign immediately stated that a tip was left, saying in an email to NPR: "The campaign spent $157 and left a $100 tip at the Maid-Rite Restaurant. Wish you had checked in with us beforehand." The campaign then sent a staffer to the restaurant with $20.00 and, one assumes, directions to explain that the tip was left on the credit card.

However, that excuse is false. The restaurant does not take tips by credit card. And the waitress reaffirmed that neither she nor anyone else she was working with received a tip. To be fair, the restaurant's manager, who was not there at the time of the Clinton campaign event, thinks that 3 of the 6 wait staff might have received a tip. However, this opinion is contradicted by the waitress in question, who said that other waitresses who worked that day came to her and said that they did not receive a tip either. Moreover, as the waitress noted, her co-workers were long time employees there and that the universal practice among wait staff has always been to share the tips when the work is shared. It is inconceivable to the waitress that a tip would be left and it not be shared.

The final and strongest piece of evidence that the Clinton campaign is simply lying about this incident is that the campaign can not produce anyone who actually left a tip. The Clinton Collective can argue all they want that this waitress is lying or that the campaign's denial should be believed, but the best defense to support the Campaign's assertion would be to produce the person who could honestly say that he or she tipped the wait staff. The campaign did not produce such person because no such person exists.

Look, I have worked in campaigns and I can understand what happened. The campaign meant to leave a tip, but everyone assumed someone else had done so. This is understandable. There is no "designated tipper" position in a campaign. Yet, instead of just admitting an honest mistake and being beat up over it for a day because they were insensitive, the campaign lied.

TRADE: David Sirota is the one that brought this deception to light. Senator Clinton has said several times that as president, she would support a "pause" in agreeing to any further trade deals so she can better judge whether such deals are good for American workers. HRC apparently last made that statement on November 12th in Iowa. Yet, only a few days ago Senator Clinton announced her support for the Peru trade pact. Thus, HRC's statements that she supports a "pause" in trade deals is shown to be nothing but a deceit. True, as Sirota points out, HRC has always couched her promise to support a "pause" in new trade agreements to her election to the presidency, but why then and not now? Clearly, her statements in support of a "pause" is nothing more then an attempt to deceive the voters into thinking she is going to protect their interests in trade negotiations, when, as the Peru deal shows, she has no intention of doing so.

Now, I understand that this post may be answered by the Clinton Collective in its typical manner: ignore the substance of the post and instead state how "outraged" or "sickened" they are by all the attacks on HRC, state how "desperate" the supporters of other campaigns are (I am for Edwards by the way), how the poster is sexist or otherwise filled with Hillary hatred, how all campaigns lie and HRC's is actually the only one that tells the truth, how I am merely reaffirming GOP talking points and/or how it all doesn't matter because Hillary has the nomination sewn up anyways. And that's fine. I understand that the Collective has their marching orders and orders must be obeyed. However, if there are any of you Clintonites who consider themselves something more then a shill, I challenge you, after venting one or all of the above attacks, to answer three yes or no questions: (1) Is this level of honesty from a campaign acceptable to you; (2) does the level of honesty outlined above also characterize the level of honesty in your posts; and (3) is this the level of honesty I and the American voters should expect from a Clinton White House. Again, feel free to state whatever you want in your post, that is obviously every one's right. However, I challenge those of you who are not a shill to at least say "yes" or "no" to the three questions above, of course adding whatever explanation to your yes or no answer you feel appropriate.



Display:


Re: Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility (none / 0)

The first two are trivia in my book.

The third item was a BS diary by Sirota IMO and I called him out at Daily Kos for it.  Judging by the comments he received, I wasn't the only one who thought he was being ridiculous.

Saying that, as President, you'd support a moratorium on trade deals or anything else hardly means that you insist that everything be on hold for OVER A YEAR until you, hopefully, get elected President.

Edwards has the best position on trade - although the merits of the Peru deal itself were certainly debatable - and he'd be a lot smarter to focus on the merits, instead of trying to make it into some kind of bogus "credibility" argument.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:18:55 PM EST

Re: Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility (none / 0)

I agree the issues in the first two were relatively trivial, though the deception was not.  As for the third, your point would only make sense if the "pause" that Clinton would introduce in her presidency should she be elected would be of only a very short duration.  But what use is a trade "pause" of only 3 or 4 months.  


Andy Katz
by Andy Katz on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:22:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility (none / 0)

This comment doesn't compute.  It's like you're making up facts, like the idea that Hillary is proposing a years-long moratorium on trade deals, and then using your own made-up facts to justify calling her a liar.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:55:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary. Is. Deceptive. (2.00 / 2)

While she states she will vote against the Colombian FTA - Mark Penn and Clinton aides have been hired by the Colombian government to push the free trade deal through Congress.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-siro ta/secret-trade-deal-can-th_b_51291.html

http://www.workingassetsblog.com/2007/05 /ap_clinton_aides_being_paid_by.html

So - her CHIEF strategist and CLINTON AIDES are working AGAINST her assertion she'll vote against it.
Words vs. Actions. Do you believe Hillary's FUTURE votes - or what is actually happening now?

>>>>>the campaign to award Colombia with a free trade deal is being led by "the public-relations firm of Burson-Marsteller, headed by former Clinton pollster Mark Penn, who is also a top adviser to Sen. Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign." Penn's "firm has set up a campaign-style operation to respond immediately to any critical news about Colombia."


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 09:47:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

annefrank! (2.00 / 1)

I miss you on dkos, when I'm there that is.


It's an election, not an auction.
by cosbo on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 11:03:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: annefrank! (2.00 / 1)

Thank you Cosbo!


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:37:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think the first issue is trivial when (none / 0)

you introduce your campaign as "A Conversation with the American People"! What kind of a conversation is it when you insist on knowing all the questions in advance?! That's fundamentally dishonest and you did an excellent job of highlighting all the different ways in which it was dishonest.


"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean
by Jim in Chicago on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 11:25:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why ever not? (none / 0)

These NAFTA-model corporate investment agreements are supposed to be permanent institutions ... there is no reason to rush into ones because "you aren't sure they are bad" ... they should only be entered into because we are as confident as we can be that they are a good deal.

And based on Senator Clinton's rationale, it is simply incoherent to support the US-Jordan NAFTA-model agreement, support the US-Peru NAFTA-model agreement, oppose the CAFTA NAFTA-model agreement, and oppose the Colombian NAFTA-model agreement. Her rationale for opposing CAFTA was the labor standards "language", and her rationale for opposing the Colombian corporate investment treaty is the number of labor officials and organizers that are murdered each year.

But they all four have substantially the same impact in terms of labor standard ... all four replace the current, rarely enforced, mild sanctions that the President has available with unenforceable labor standards. The only difference is the specific details of what language they are paying lip service to.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 10:58:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why ever not? (2.00 / 1)

I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that, considering Peru is not a huge deal in its own right, it's okay to approve that deal and set a new paradigm in terms of labor and environmental standards.  Having set that as the baseline, we can work on a private enforcement mechanism as the next logical step.

I don't have strong feelings on this because Peru, standing alone, is just not worth getting worked up over.  But I'll definitely take Edwards on the overall issue of trade policy.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 11:04:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But we never set that new paradigm ... (none / 0)

... the Peru corporate investment agreement falls back from the Jordan corporate investment agreement. And the Jordan corporate investment agreement fell short precisely at the enforcement mechanism ... with a real enforcement mechanism, the alleged massive abuses of guest worker labor that led to the AFL-CIO to submit its 2006 petition to the President to raise a dispute would have led directly to a dispute.

We set a new paradigm with the NAFTA side agreements, and they were empty lip service. We set a new paradigm with even stronger labor standards language in the US-Jordan corporate investment agreement, and they were empty lip service. And now the Congresscritters and Senators are simply lying and claiming that we are setting a new paradigm, when in reality we are falling back from our high water mark ... and the high water mark was empty lip service to labor standards.

And of course the idea that the trade preferences in the Andean Drug War act are equivalent to the trade preferences in the US-Peru corporate investment agreement ignores two points. First, it ignores the point that the most important part of the NAFTA-model agreements are the investment rules, which guts these economy's opportunities for long term growth, which can turn them into important markets for US goods and services, in service of short term corporate profits. Second, it ignores the point that the trade preferences in the Andean Drug War bill are not a permanent arrangement, while the Peru corporate investment agreement aspires to be a permanent arrangement.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 11:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But we never set that new paradigm ... (none / 0)

Let me ask you this.  If Peru was obviously such a bad deal, why did the AFL-CIO end up taking no position on it?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 12:22:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Let me ask you ... given that the AFL-CIO ... (none / 0)

... supported the US-Jordon FTA as representing a "new paradigm" ... and of course, last year petitioned the President to raise a dispute under the agreement, with no success ... how does their position on the US-Peru corporate investment agreement argue for it representing a big step ahead compared to US-Jordan?

CtW is against it, and the AFL-CIO is neutral ... if it does set a new paradigm, why is there no labor union or environmental group in the US or Peru supporting it?

The talk of these agreements representing a step toward fair trade is just a cover story used by Democrats who want to raise a smokescreen.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:42:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And now we have her latest switch (2.00 / 1)

on illegal immigrants and licenses ...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/14 /182112/35


by okamichan13 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:31:02 PM EST

Re: And now we have her latest switch (2.00 / 2)

Well - I'm sure Obama will have some TV ads up real soon on her driver license flip flop.
NOT!

But you can bet the Repubs will.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 09:50:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility (none / 0)

Obviously, Clinton was not clear and I am glad that she is against this plan, but this issue is an explosive one for Democrats and we should be against it; as for Edwards, he should step down, because he is an apologist and attacking other Democrats personally, which is unacceptable.


by American1989 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:31:49 PM EST

Re: Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility (none / 0)

Apparently you're new to primary season??


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 09:51:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

lol... (none / 0)


"vision for change comes first and foremost...from me." -- Barack Obama
by bored now on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:42:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility (none / 0)

What is "unacceptable" is attacking by using words like "apologist" followed by saying that "attacking Democrats personally' is unacceptable. Makes no sense.  Oh, and "obviously" it is so unacceptable to use words like "obviously."


Join the Feral Cats of Freedom Coughing Up Hairballs of Truth in the Montana Underbrush
by Feral Cat on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 10:25:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility (none / 0)

Obama better swtich real quick too.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:41:59 PM EST

your rude (none / 0)

and funny

my kinda guy!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:54:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility (none / 0)

Obama actually believes what he says, he does not allow poll numbers to shape his opinions.  


by allmiview on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 08:01:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility (none / 0)


That was pretty funny!  :D

by killjoy on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 02:22:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility (none / 0)

These talking points, narrative planted by MSM are always getting stale... Edwards/Obama/MSM have to find some new ammos...

Let's move on to the next bunch of polls.


by prisonbreak on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:44:41 PM EST

Re: Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility (none / 0)


Hillary Clinton's lack of credibility is not about mere trivial matters either.


"It is clear to anyone witnessing the US run-up to the war against Iraq that the resolution passed by Congress at the end of 2002 would lead to military action. The threatening rhetoric from the neo-cons in the Administration and the almost weekly legislation threatening Iraq that was passed in Congress left little doubt among serious foreign policy observers that the US was on a course toward war. The resolution passed in 2002 accelerated that course exponentially. Those who claim otherwise after the fact [ Hillary Clinton ] are either not being completely truthful or were at the time not paying attention."

          -Dr. Ron Paul



For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:53:37 PM EST

lookee who he be quotin! (2.00 / 2)

the crazy man's bestest friend!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:55:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

War is crazy! (none / 0)


Ron Paul was smart enough to oppose the War and the Occupation from day one.

Ron Paul is smart enough to know that the Iran Revolution Guard
is not the problem in Iraq,  our own immoral & despised occupation is!
______

You Neocons are the crazy ones (ruining the damn country and the world)!




For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 08:05:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's strange to me that you (none / 0)

use this really unattractive picture of Hillary for your tagline.  


by bookgrl on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 08:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hmm, I find unprovoked War really strange (none / 0)



For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 08:40:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hmm, I find unprovoked War really strange (none / 0)

You're supporting Ron Paul???
Apparently you hate Medicare and Social Security - and have affordable health care.
Paul doesn't even have a health care plan but doesn't mind taxpayers with NO health care paying his health care costs.

Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 09:54:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hmm, I find unprovoked War really strange (none / 0)


Actually, Ron Paul treated all his clients regardless of their ability to pay without exception (very charitable).

I understand the confusion though. I don't agree with every one of Paul's positions. But unlike all other candidates, aside from Dennis Kucinich, he is really addressing the core sources of Monopolistic control/corruption of the United States, and the resultant loss of liberty and economic stability in our country head on ( military-industrial-complex, private central bank, national ID card, U.S. Patriot Act., NAFTA, GATT, CAFTA, etc.). I admit I have a weakness for honest, reform-oriented politicians.

But Ron Paul has said very clearly that he will not throw anyone off of Social Security or Medicare (even though he doesn't like government-based social programs). Instead, he will save the country trillions of dollars by closing most of these 750 invasive military bases throughout 130 nations, end of policies of Warfare, Corporate greed, government lies & secrecy, and bring the troops and the money back home.  

If you have your thinking cap on, this means that our government would no longer be awash in trillions of dollars of debt and that the vital social programs will now be able to be financially solvent - rather than in peril.

It's also silly to be worried about President Paul "getting rid of" these programs, because Congress would have to okay it (not happening).  Where President Paul will make his biggest impact is on totally redefining American Foreign Policy.  

He can do that.
And we really, really need it!



For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 10:28:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hmm, I find unprovoked War really strange (none / 0)

Edwards will cut wasteful Pentagon spending - and he's pro-choice. Not a flip flopper like Kucinich.

Once again - taxpayers with NO health care or NO affordable health care are paying Paul's health care costs.
Edwards would put pressure on Congress to pass UHC legislation.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:44:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Should I use this picture instead? (1.00 / 0)


Liar, liar, Iraq's on Fire!




For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 10:37:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Romney supporter (none / 0)

Holden voted for Romney for MA governor, so I take his comments with a grain of salt.


by BDM on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 12:07:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Romney supporter (none / 0)

I really think you're wrong about this!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 12:23:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Romney supporter (none / 0)

If I recall, it was actually hwc who voted for Romney--at least, I've heard that claim made several times without denial or rejection. I welcome correction, of course, if this isn't true.


by DPW on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 01:58:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Can we zero Paul supporters now? (none / 0)

I mean he is a registered friggin' Republican.  He will most likely run as a Libertarian.  I thought this site was for Democrats?

I don't want to see like a d!ck but I think Paul supporters really should go elsewhere, or we should simply zero them out everytime.


by dpANDREWS on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 10:53:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

peat reapeat (none / 0)

hash rehash
crap recrap

ho hum


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 08:45:18 PM EST

NEWS FLASH!! Gore's not running (none / 0)


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 09:54:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Utter phony BS (none / 0)

Your candidates simply need to do better on their own merits, instead of attacking Clinton.

I leave tips on my vredit card all the time.  The restuarant owner says a tip was left and all was fine, everyone was happy.

Still you peddle bs because your candidate is doing poorly.

That is sad.

You also use the word "plant" which is an RNC talking point.  Jeff Gannon was a plant.  A guestion offered to a college student who was not forced to ask it was a SUGGESTION.

YOU are not better than a Jeff Gannon and are squarely in his league.  

You want to talk about liars?  Ask Barry Obama how he was able to afford his house.  How it was a major backer of his swooped in and helped make it affordable by seperating and buying a piece of land the house sat on at an above market price from the owner.

Ask Obama about stock deals.   Ask Obama about Selma, when he was concieved, and the inspiration of for his conception.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 10:24:42 PM EST

Re: Utter phony BS (none / 0)

I notice that you didnt answer any of the three questions I posed for Clintonites who consider do not consider themselves shills.


Andy Katz
by Andy Katz on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 07:29:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Better yet (none / 0)

sk Giuliani about his cousin and how she was in bed.  Ask Rudy about how long he had carried on an affair with judi before he broke up his family and broke his kids hearts.   Ask Rudy what he knew about Bernie and that apartment that was supposed to be used for heroes.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 10:26:51 PM EST

Some New Reports on Planting (none / 0)

Just surfing...and came across a new report suggesting additional evidence of question planting.  

If you are interested, the latest one can be found here.


by Demo37 on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 01:50:48 AM EST

Update: there's more actually (none / 0)


here:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignm atters?bid=45&pid=251886


by pmb on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 02:23:16 AM EST

Re: New Hillary problem (none / 0)

Three recipients of controversial 11th-hour pardons issued by former President Bill Clinton in January 2001 have donated thousands of dollars to the presidential campaign of his wife, Democratic front-runner Sen. Hillary Clinton," according to campaign finance records examined by ABC News.

There's nothing illegal about this, however the timing of the news before tonight's Democratic debate is unfortunate for the Clinton campaign.

This just came out this morning


by BDM on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 11:07:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Campaign's Problem With Credibility (2.00 / 1)


Where has Hillary been the last eight years-?


  • On Civil Liberties?
  • On telling the truth about Iraq (it never was a military threat)?
  • On telling the truth about the Iran Revolution Guard (not the problem with Iraq)?
  • On telling the truth about 9-11 (nothing to do with  Iraq/Hussein/regime-change )?
  • On civilian-killing Cluster Bombs (she voted against a Ban)?
  • On the use of Torture (conflicting statements, including pro-Torture ones)?
  • On the use of White House Wiretapping powers?
  • On the U.S. Patriot Act?
  • On the National ID Card ?
  • On the North American Union?
  • On defending the Constitution and the rule of law?
  • On holding Dick Cheney accountable to the law?
  • On the U.S. privatization (theft) of Iraqs own Oil?
  • On promoting doctor-patient-based non-profit Health Care?

How can Hillary be the "hero" figure here, slaying the "Republican dragon", when she herself has been one of the worst ones signing onto and enabling all of their most barbaric, insane, and disgusting policies-?

Would Al Gore have made the same corrupt Bush-enabling choices as Hillary Clinton has?  
Answer: No.

Would Dennis Kucinich? Answer: No.
Would John Edwards?  Answer: Some, but not most of them.
Would Obama? Answer: Some, but not most of them.

Just what was the great "battle" that Hillary Clinton ever stood-up and fought the Bush administration over?
There was none!

While honest Democrats like Barbara Boxer voted the right way consistently, Hillary Clinton
always voted   the Joe Lieberman way,   the dishonest way,   the Bush-empowering way.

Hillary Clinton hasn't fought the GOP one damn bit.
She joined them for over eight long years now, and so we're supposed to believe that now she's the hero??

This is laughable if it weren't so sad.

Millions dead, you know .... people Tortured...people mutilated....whole nations destroyed ... Haebeus Corpus gone.... government lies sanctioned.....country bankrupt.....




For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 05:39:42 PM EST


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